How can we sit with tension and challenge others gently? In this conversation, Elise reflects on her experiences in the first all-gender learning journey — realising how she is not only affected by, but also internalises patriarchy through people-pleasing. We explore unlearning and composting this through holding complexity with curiosity and kindness. She also shares the joys of embracing vulnerability, particularly within the queer community.
This generative interview is part of a series with participants of the Beyond Patriarchy Collective Learning Journey, which explores how patriarchal systems shape our lives, relationships, and ways of organising — and what it takes to unlearn them in practice.
Elise Bilger (she/her) is a facilitator, Gender Studies scholar and member of the Beyond Patriarchy Collective. She has worked as a project manager on a variety of gender-related topics, including gender finance, menstrual health and patriarchal organisational structures. Her focus lies on understanding how patriarchy, in intersection with other systems of oppression, shapes society as a whole. She is passionately committed to creating open spaces, especially for cis-men*, to reflect, question, unlearn and redefine our societal understanding of partriarchy and gender dynamics.
[Will] I’d like to invite you to imagine yourself in a world beyond patriarchy. How does this feel, and what can you make sense of?
[Elise] Relief — breathing out. Relief of knowing that myself and others can express all the feelings, and to hold that with kindness. I’m often worried about how people will react if I say something; there’s a lot of tiptoeing, especially around men. There’s a lot of fear and uncertainty about how I will be met with what I bring to the table. It would be really nice to just exist and not have to worry about someone else’s reaction. I’ve internalised so many people-pleasing tendencies in response to the reactions of men; it would be such a relief to be able to hold tension with complexity and curiosity instead of defensiveness and fragility.
It sounds lovely to feel that relief. What did this container as an all gender learning journey make possible that would not be possible otherwise?
The time that it gives you. To have space to talk about patriarchy, to focus on learning together and to hold each other accountable. When I joined, I was questioning what this was actually gonna do. I’ve spent so much time with this topic already: I’ve studied gender studies, and I’m a queer woman in this world. What more is there really to learn?
But once I opened up, gave it time, and began talking about it with other people who have similar and different experiences, I came away with more input than I thought I would.
It was interesting to have both men* and FLINTA* in the room, because it created tension. There were similarities, but hearing other people’s experiences can also be hard to hold sometimes. Sometimes I wanted to emphasise my experience more, and it was good to have the time to sit with this tension.
You mentioned some tensions, what were some of the challenges that emerged for you?
This general gender dynamic tension. As a woman, you feel like you need to hold the space or make someone feel comfortable, and there’s frustration when there is imbalance. There was this feeling of: who is speaking, how much, and what topics get brought up? I was noticing where I felt more comfortable speaking up, sometimes I was more the facilitator and moderator, and sometimes I felt more like breathing out, knowing we can hold this simultaneously.
When you’re in a mixed gender space talking about gender, I don’t think you can avoid tension; there’s automatically tension, but that’s why tension is good. Once you can express it and make this tension explicit, to sit with it and question what happened, you can understand who actually perceives this tension and how it feels. In the ‘harvesting’ session, we realised that some people didn’t see tension as much as others, and that’s where a lot of learning happened.
What is an assumption, story, or belief, if any, that shifted for you throughout this learning journey?
Sometimes I think I am already beyond patriarchy, and then I realise, “fuck, there’s so much still there”. In gender studies, we talked a lot about racism and Black feminism, and I felt very uncomfortable and challenged in my whiteness, but because we were mostly FLINTA*, there wasn’t as much tension when it came to patriarchy.
What shifted for me was realising that a lot of the things that I do daily are because of patriarchy within me, not just because patriarchy happens to me, but because I recreate it as well. For example, I’ve tried all my life to be a “good girl”, and I’m still trying to unlearn these people-pleasing tendencies — to not say yes to everything, but instead to slow down, set boundaries, and accept that I will disappoint people. Understanding how much patriarchy there is within me was a big realisation — realising that I am also part of the system.
Part of the learning journey included acknowledging harms or ways that we might perpetuate patriarchy, and inviting us to compost these, is there anything that you still need to compost?
[Elise] How to hold tension. I often see tension so clearly, but I don’t know how to change it. To sit with that and not get angry at people for not doing the work that I want them to do, to be more forgiving, more gentle. When you see a system so clearly, you want to scream at the top of your lungs: “Why are you not all seeing this and doing your internal work as well?” I think I’m also composting the anger I feel towards individuals, family, friends, and work colleagues. I’m trying not to get too frustrated but also figuring out how to reach out and support them to do some of the internal work.
I’m holding the tension of wanting to scream at others, whilst also being gentle. I want to challenge gently.
And what would it look like to challenge gently? You mentioned friends, family, and work colleagues; what kind of support do you wish from your community?
For men, especially, it would be nice to not have to tiptoe around the word patriarchy. Once men acknowledge that they are influenced by patriarchy, it opens up so many conversations. If you bring up a conflict, it can be met with curiosity and openness, rather than the fear of being belittled.
It took me a lot of years, and it is still taking time to be confident and trust my intuition, knowing that if something feels off, something is off, and to trust that.
I want to fight all the fights all the time, and I want to tell all the men who annoy me that they annoy me, but if I do my own inner work, that will actually help me do the outer work as well, because I will have more energy to give back. Sometimes you gotta know when to step back and not try to fix everything at the same time, even though you see it. I think that tension of seeing so many things at the same time, but not jumping in every single time you see it — because otherwise you’re gonna go crazy and burn out.
You bring a lot of experiences to this space, and as we are also emerging into a collective — what are some gifts you bring that might not have surfaced yet?
[Elise] I can be vulnerable very easily. It took me a long time to realise that that’s a skill and a gift. I think that’s part of unlearning how patriarchy showed up in my upbringing; now I realise the more I can be vulnerable and grounded, the more it helps others be vulnerable and open up.
During the self-care session, I was not feeling well, and I really didn’t want to talk about self-care. I turned off the camera because I just felt like crying, as I thought it would be uncomfortable for everyone. But after being held so well in a 1:1 conversation in a breakout room, I came back to the main room and thought, “fuck it, I’ll just be a little puddle of emotions” – we were talking about self-care, so I thought I should practise self-care during the session and show up with what I was feeling, so I turned my camera back on. It was very special for me to be seen, to have that explicitly named as a strength and something that’s invited into the space.
Thanks for being vulnerable and opening up. Where do you see others working to reimagine worlds beyond patriarchy, in your personal world, or broader landscape of gender justice?
In the queer community, there’s so much vulnerability but also joy at the same time. There’s this sense that we all know we’re vulnerable in the system, but we still choose to be visible, loud, and have fun. Loud and proud is kind of cliché, but it’s true. It took me a long time to realise that I was queer, and realise that this is the space I want to be in.
There is this really strong feeling of belonging, but also being able to be yourself unapologetically. It’s this full spectrum of deep trauma and wounds that we’ve all experienced, being able to share that and hold it together, then two minutes later — we’re all laughing.
There’s so much joy in being able to be fully yourself, no matter what gender, no matter what background, whilst still acknowledging how gender and sexuality have shaped us.
Was there anything that felt alive during this conversation, or was there any meaning that emerged for you?
Yeah, more than I thought. I’m trying not to tear up again, but I’m so grateful that I found this space. I’m so grateful to have found people who want to do this work holistically in a way that feels so honest and real. Taking into account the full human, recognising that we all have so many different facets to each other. Trying not to get lost in the sense of urgency, but doing this work gently for ourselves as well — that’s really special.
Thank you, I teared up a bit and felt quite emotional witnessing your vulnerability, which was unexpected, so thanks for sharing. Is there anything else you’d like to add?
Do you want to feel all the feelings? Then sign up for the next learning journey with us!
I’m really excited and nervous to do more of this work. It doesn’t have to happen tomorrow, and doesn’t have to happen next week, but step by step, it will happen.
I’m always fascinated that there aren’t more spaces like this — I’d love for this to be more mainstream, for more people to experience this and learn from it. There are so many activist spaces where emotions don’t have space, or you don’t feel like you can bring your full self. I think every single person I know would benefit from this, and it’s like, yes — more please.
Thank you so much for sharing your story with me Elise!
This interview was hosted and edited by Will Scobie.
To learn more and pre-register for upcoming learning journeys, click here.