What happens when you realise the patterns you absorbed as a child – the ones that kept you alive – are the same ones now keeping you numb? In this conversation, Niels reflects on the ‘seed’ he planted during our learning journey: a commitment to finally feel patriarchy instead of just naming it, and the vulnerable work of understanding himself more deeply so he can show up more honestly with others.
This generative interview is part of a series with participants of the Beyond Patriarchy Collective Learning Journey, which explores how patriarchal systems shape our lives, relationships, and ways of organising — and what it takes to unlearn them in practice.
Niels Stabingh is an emerging facilitator and tour guide living in The Hague, a city located on the Dutch coast. Two years ago, after graduating his Master’s in Industrial Ecology, a multi-disciplinary sustainability studies, he embarked on a personal journey to discover his deeper purpose. Today, Niels is driven by a core question: how can we, as human beings, live more meaningful and fulfilling lives that are deeply connected to the larger web of life? He brings this vision to his work by creating spaces for stories and open dialogue.
[Jack] I’d like to invite you to think back to the end of the learning journey when you ‘planted a seed’ that you committed to nourishing moving forward. What was the seed that you planted?
[Niels] My vision – or the seed that I planted – is to focus on the relationship with myself.
First, to be aware of my feelings. Second, to be more aware of others’ feelings. Third, to be better spot patriarchal patterns in myself and others. And lastly, to have the courage to say something even if it generates conflict in a situation.
I had quite some intense things happening in my youth, such as losing my sister, and then my parents separating quite quickly afterwards. So, as a kid, I was always looking forward and thinking, “I just gotta live on”. That helped me get through those times, but it doesn’t serve me well anymore. I would hope to give a pat on the shoulder of that 10 year old Niels and say, “You did a good job. Thanks for protecting me, but I don’t need you anymore”.
The learning journey helped me become more aware of this and my wish to dive deeper into this topic.
What’s an assumption or a belief that you changed your mind about through the learning journey?
I came into the journey knowing that patriarchy is real, but not feeling it or really experiencing it. Now that awareness shifts. I see the dynamics more clearly. I look more to the relations than just the people. I’m more aware of what’s happening in spaces.
I’m now more consciously asking, what is my role in this situation?
I know that fighting battles for women without being asked to can replicate patriarchal patterns. But not speaking up can as well. I find it very difficult to position myself in these situations, especially with male dominant group dynamics. For example, when I’m with friends and inappropriate comments are being made: should I make a bigger point out of this? Is it my responsibility because I notice more?
What would you need or want, either from yourself or from others in those situations, to have that courage to take that step?
What would be nice is to be able to address it in a humorous way – to take some of the seriousness out of it rather than go directly into conflict. That way you can shift the culture in the group.
What are you willing to risk, in this regard? Or what are you not willing to risk?
That’s a good question, and a difficult one. It depends on the moment: sometimes I’m willing to risk my popularity in the group by taking that position, but there’s always a certain fear that you become ‘the annoying guy’.
It’s a tricky role to navigate. What’s the next step that you’re willing to take?
The first step is to take some therapy sessions to dive a bit deeper into the relationship I have with myself. I think it will help if I understand my own feelings better, so that I can be more aware of other people’s feelings. And I can be more more attuned to what is really happening in a situation. And then I can decide if I want to act or not.
I think you’re speaking to something many people can probably relate to, like not being sure what role to take, what’s going to be effective or not in this situation. But we also exist in relationship. So I’d like to ask: What might your invitations or asks of other people and groups be, specifically other cis men in your life?
To be more honest with themselves and with others.
For example, when a comment is made:
Instead of saying, “fuck you, bro”, being able to actually communicate with each other honestly about what’s going on inside of you, what matters to you, what hurts you – and not be ashamed of it.
Beautiful. And finally, Niels, what new meaning, if any, was created for you through this conversation?
I think the word courage comes back up. How courageous am I, actually? I consider myself quite courageous, but I think real courage comes from doing something outside your comfort zone. That’s the truly scary part, but that’s what I want to do.
Thank you so much for sharing your story with me Niels!
This interview was hosted and edited by Jack Becher.
To learn more and pre-register for upcoming learning journeys, click here.